The Unshackled Interview with Soundarya Balasubramani | Indian.Community #17

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This episode of the Indian Community Podcast features Soundarya, the founder and CEO of Unshackled, sharing her inspiring journey from India to the US and how she transitioned from a corporate job at Salesforce to fulfilling her passion in publishing and community building. Soundarya speaks about her struggles and triumphs in navigating the complex US visa system, her role as an author, community leader, LinkedIn top voice, and angel investor. The hosts, Amit Gupta and Rahul Mehra, dive deep into Soundarya's story, including her unique background, her approach to overcoming career changes, and her efforts in assisting immigrants to reach their full potential. Additionally, Soundarya discusses her upcoming university tour aimed at empowering students with knowledge on navigating immigration issues, her personal rituals, and the message of taking risks and exploring multiple career paths. The conversation also highlights the importance of mentorship and the powerful impact of connecting with influential figures like Rajesh Setty.

00:00 Reconnecting with Morrie: A Tale of Mentorship and Life Lessons
00:31 Welcome to the Indian Community Podcast: Unveiling Soundarya's Journey
03:35 Soundarya's Name Story: From Pooja to Soundarya
06:40 Embracing a Multifaceted Career: Soundarya's Path from Engineering to Entrepreneurship
17:29 The Inspiration Behind 'Unshackled': Soundarya's Immigration Journey
22:47 Navigating the Complex World of Immigration: From H1B to EB1
28:22 The Power of Perspective: A Visa Success Story
29:12 Building a Profile: The Journey to Talent Visas
29:37 The Role of Community and Hard Work in Achieving Goals
30:10 Finding Motivation and Direction in Talent Pursuits
35:39 The Impact of External Validation and Personal Growth
38:41 Navigating Social Media: A Tale of Two Platforms
42:31 Empowering Students: The Upcoming University Tour
48:29 Managing a Multifaceted Career: Time Management and Daily Routines
51:50 Rapid Fire Questions: Getting Personal
55:11 Final Thoughts and Messages for Indian Immigrants

Transcript

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 0:00

Mitch reconnected with Morrie after 18 years out of high school and he reconnected when Morrie was in the last six months of his life and he was dying from aLS back then. And it's a true story. This happened 24 years ago. I was thinking of Rajesh. And um, thank God Rajesh is not dying, but he does have Parkinson's. And when I met him, He went through a very hard time and he still goes through a hard time every single day.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 0:26

I think, um, It demonstrates how important is the role of a mentor, Hello, and welcome to the Indian Community Podcast. I'm your host, Amit Gupta, along with my friend and co host Rahul Mehra. Today, we are joined by Soundarya founder and CEO of Unshackled. She's a remarkable individual whose journey from India to the US is a tale of resilience, Passion and transformation. After completing her master's at Columbia, Soundarya joined Salesforce as a product manager, only to realize corporate life was not her calling. Embracing her true passion, she ventured into the world of publishing and community building, supporting talented immigrants in obtaining. talent visas, and most importantly, freedom. Soundarya's journey is not just about her transition from a corporate role to becoming a solopreneur, it's a story of navigating the complex visa system, overcoming setbacks, and ultimately obtaining the 01 Extraordinary Visa. As an author, community leader, LinkedIn top voice, and now angel investor, Soundarya is here to share her insights, experiences, and how she's helping immigrants their potential. So welcome to the Indian Community Podcast,

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 1:53

such a great intro and what a great ending to that intro. I love how you're using the word unshackled. Thanks so much for having me.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 2:01

It was a beautiful name for a book, because when I first came across your book, like, wow, this means so much, right? And, um, freedom is something that we all cherish. And, um, some of us don't have that in spite of our countries being free. And we, none of us live in captivity, but somehow circumstances have made us captive. And I love the way you've positioned that book. And I think there's this, a lot of thought behind picking up a name and that was one of them. I had to use that once again.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 2:37

Thanks so much. And I think, I keep thinking back to the moment when I thought of the name and I cannot place the exact moment because It feels like I almost always knew that if I ever write a book on immigration, name's going to be unshackled. Um, and it only strengthened day I quit my job at Salesforce, which was two years and months ago at this point or four months ago. Um, and that day after I Got the email from my lawyer telling me that you can now go quit because your h1b transfer got approved when we can get Into that if you want Like I just felt pure catharsis and free freedom in that moment. So and charcoal was the word that came to mind

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 3:21

Yes. I had a similar experience, um, you know, when I got my permanent residency and I was like, okay, today I feel truly free. And, um, I can relate with what you would have gone through at that time.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 3:34

Thank you.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 3:35

So, Soundarya, let's start from very interesting that I observed on the internet when we were doing our research about you, which was in the day, you have been called Pooja, you used to call yourself as Pooja. So what's the story behind Soundarya and Pooja? Can you tell us a little bit about that?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 3:56

Absolutely. I mean it would be so sad if I just called myself Pooja for no reason but Actually, people still call me Pooja and I think will continue to call me for the rest of my life. And that's because, when I was born, my Official name was Soundarya, which my dad kept after seeing the charts of what is the right name for me. Um, at the same time though, my brother who was five and a half years older than me, so he was five and a half years old at that point, he kept the name Pooja.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 4:28

Okay.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 4:29

recently actually, I asked him a few months ago. Do you know why you did that back then? he said, I think it's because I had a crush on someone called Puja in my classroom. Maybe I liked the name, so I kept it for you. But, um, that's the origin of that. And I just almost everyone calls me Puja. In fact, except for teachers and professors who had to call me Ria since it was the official name.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 4:53

Right.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 4:54

few call me. Very few people call me Samaria

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 4:57

Okay, that's interesting. So is that back home in India or it's even here in the U. S. People call you Pooja.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 5:05

here, everywhere actually. Um, and here I also introduce myself as Puja because. just easier to say for Americans and people who are not from India than Soundarya. Because for Soundarya, I would always have a follow up question that says, oh, say that again.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 5:21

What does that mean? You know, I

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 5:24

Sundarya, Sandy, what is that?

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 5:27

No, that's cool. That's interesting. So your brother gave you that name and it has stuck, um, to, so did he finally meet Puja, or not

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 5:38

Given that Pooja is one of the most common names in India, I'm sure he met somebody named that.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 5:45

and he was five and a half years old, so I'm sure he doesn't even remember who that Puja was, so that's cool. Correct.

Track 1: 5:52

So Soundarya, where do you belong to in India?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 5:54

I come from a very small suburb called Patravakkam. It is it's north of Chennai. So it's about 15 kilometers north. Um, I grew up there, spent 13 years before moving to mainland Chennai for high school because my brother had to go to college at that point.

Track 1: 6:10

Okay. So is Pooja a very common name down there in South India also?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 6:14

Actually, I've heard it's more common up north. Um, Soundarya is quite common in the southern part of India.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 6:21

That's cool. So, um, sore. So I think for the sake of this episode, we are gonna call you Soundarya Because a lot of our listeners and viewers know you as Soundarya Balasubramani and we'll stick to that. So no more

Track 1: 6:38

Right. So

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 6:40

first question is, so many times your career, you're defined by what you study at school or at university. And now here I look at you, you're a gold medalist in chemical engineering. also been a successful author writing on a very complex subjects, such as immigration. And then, um, now you're building a community and you, you're also, um, an angel investor. So how how do people react to you when you say that you've done all of these things and do people call you fickle minded? Like, you know, when I would tell people that I've done all these different things. People would say that's very fatal minded. You've not you're not focusing on one. And what do you think? Is that a quality or is that, um, you know, something that you repent?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 7:35

Excellent question. Like I wish everyone asked, you know, me this question because it's true. I've shifted careers a few times now from chemical engineering to product management to writing to now, I guess, entrepreneurship, although I feel like I'm just a newbie here, I used to think it was a weakness and obviously, yes, a lot of people have told me that you're. Are you sure you want to do this? Don't you want to stick to this for another few years to see where it goes? Um, and obviously, I mean, these voices get into your mind, right? Like, because I was telling this to one of my best friends recently that you are what you hear. And when you keep hearing from other people that you're unfocused, you're not going deep enough in one area, it starts to become your own inner monologue, wherein you start to tell yourself that why are you so unfocused? Why can't you just stick to one field? and I have proof of this, because if I go back to my journal entries from 2019 2020. You lot of this in there. And, um, really glad I journaled and I still journal. It's one of my meta skills that I want to keep up. at some point though, somewhere in the last, especially the last one and a half years, um, I realized that it's not a weakness and it's actually a brilliant strength because very few people have the ability to switch careers. and make progress really fast in that career in a very short period of time. and you know, without sounding braggy, I just felt like compared to where I was a few years ago, where I used to think I used to myself mentally for not sticking to one field. I've come a long way and kind of embracing this as I'm really happy that I can do this, um, because polymath is one of the words that I love in the English language for many reasons. Um, but I realized that while ago I realized I aspire to become a polymath in my life where I want to try as many careers as possible. Um, And I do realize one thing is that I love writing books and I'm going to keep writing for the rest of my life. Like that's something that'll keep happening, I'm not going to be a traditional author in the sense of, know people who they wake up and they spend eight to 10 hours writing. And that's what they do primarily.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 10:05

Right.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 10:06

you know, it's incredible that they can do that. I realize though that I actually like alternating between periods of quiet writing where I, I don't talk to anyone. And I just go off into my own world for a while. then there is period of creating something out of that book. Building a community or building a company out of that. Um, just doing something with the book that I wrote, written. in a different way. For example, um, with Unshackled we're doing a book tour, which, you know, we'll talk about later on. But with the next book, um, I really want to do a documentary. It's something I've never done before and I want to try it. Um, yeah, I think you are what you hear and if you're around the wrong people, you can kind of, it's a self, you know, fulfilling prophecy where people tell you that you tell yourself that and then you become that. Um, and I think it's important to be around people who are more of a champion for you who, I mean, who are not, um, what's the word for it? Echo chambers. I'm not, you know, I'm not saying be echo chambers, but rather around people who can tell you the truth, but not, um, condemn you for it or not look down upon you for what you want to do. so I think, I found those people in the last two years, especially.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 11:27

Yeah, that is true. Very true. In fact, I think I feel it is okay to change your mind because That's how you pivot, right? And you're able to change your trajectory based on all that collective experience that you build. And you just don't know when, what experience kind of helps you, right? I'm sure everything that you've done, you've studied you've been able to those skills over. And today you are, you're complete because of this, right? And that's what is going to be most important. So

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 12:00

Yeah. I mean, I would like to think that's true. It's certainly a better story to tell yourself. Um, I don't know if I'm ever going to use the chemical engineering concepts. I don't even remember them anymore from college. Um, I think for me, what I will take away from colleges, I was active in an extracurricular sense. I was part of many clubs. in both my undergrad and grad school. And so there I learned to work with people and get things done. Like whatever it takes, be scrappy and get things done. And that I think has helped me a lot.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 12:35

correct. And it's not just the subject that you're learning, right? It is how you learn. And that is also something which is very important. So it doesn't matter what you learned, but I think what is more important is how you were learning things. And that is a skill that you built. And now be it a new topic be it immigration or this new documentary that you're going to be planning for, um, that reminds me, have you thought of a subject for the documentary? Okay.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 13:03

yes, it's the same subject as the book. It's kind of a an corollary to the doc, the book itself. So book plus documentary on the same topic, which yeah, we can talk now or we can talk later.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 13:16

Now, while we're on that subject, so why not, you know, what is that documentary going to be about?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 13:22

Um, okay. It's a very nebulous idea, but the book something that I. thought of writing two and a half years ago. So, um, I met someone named Rajesh Setty on July 7th, 2021. So it's been two years and eight months actually. Um, I believe you know him,

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 13:40

I do.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 13:41

right? So Rajesh changed my life in every way possible. Um, it's like, you know how there's BC and AC, like before Christ, after Christ. In my own life, I think of it as BR and AR, because right now I obviously cannot imagine like a life without knowing Rajesh and we've talked every day for the last two years and six months. Like, pretty much from the first few weeks since we met, we began talking every single day, um And it's insane because we've spoken for probably thousands of hours, but I still, it is still the highlight of my day getting to talk to him. He is a 20X author, serial entrepreneur, mentor to many startups, many things. He's a genius. Um, and The time I, after the time I met Rajesh, I read a book called Tuesdays with Morrie. I don't know if you know the book.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 14:41

I do not.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 14:42

Okay, so this is a beautiful slice of life book on a person called Morrie, who is a professor of this person called Mitch who wrote the book. He's the author of the book. So Mitch reconnected with Morrie after 18 years out of high school and he reconnected when Morrie was in the last six months of his life and he was dying from ALS back then. And this was, it's a true story. This happened 24 years ago. Um, and so every Tuesday, Mitch would go meet Maury for. Just to talk about life and different aspects of what makes a good life from the perspective of someone who is actually dying. And that's it. That's the entire book. It's a book of conversations between two people. So that book really touched me more than, much more than I expected because the entire time I was reading it, I was thinking of Rajesh. And um, thank God Rajesh is not dying, but he does have Parkinson's. And when I met him, he was He went through a very hard time and he still goes through a hard time every single day. nobody who meets him would even have a slight clue that he has Parkinson's. Because he just lives his life with so much joy and he's like, he's like an infectious joy creating machine if you're around him.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 16:06

Yeah. That is very noble Soundarya and I was very glad when I saw you throw a flash party for his birthday and yeah, that was very cool. And I I think, um, It demonstrates how important is the role of a mentor, right? And I think if you so, you know, the thing about mentors is there's a mentor and mentee, right? And both of them have to be synced in such a way that the knowledge that gets transferred multiplies multifold. Right. So it is. I think that's what you're kind of witnessing And I'm glad that you got an opportunity to you know, spend so much time with Rajesh. And yeah, he's an inspiration for everybody. Right. And we'll put a link to his TEDx speech, which was one of my favorites, which, you know, I kind of And we'll put a link to his TEDx speech, which was one of my favorites, which, you know, I kind of Go back and listen to that, um, on days when I feel low, right? That,

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 17:09

hear that.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 17:10

that, yes, that is very cool.

Track 1: 17:15

I mean, this is my first question. So, you know, we read your book. I mean, I mean, I was talking about your book. Shackled a lot. So, what motivated you to write this book and what do you expect the readers to take away? It's.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 17:28

that's a great question. Second one. Um, what motivated me? In short, personal experience with immigration. Um, I, I began doing like a research project into high skilled immigration for myself, um, around early 2021. So this was after I published my first book, Admitted, and I just knew that this is it. Like, I love writing books. I want to be an author full time and I want to be a solo printer full time. I'm very clear of this. Um, I don't know what I'm going to write about, but I want to do this. And so I decided to figure out how can I quit my job and still be in the U. S. And be a solo founder. And that's what got me into reading about immigration. you can't just quit your job because you want to here. And um, I spent a year reading about it for myself, not for anybody else really. I, having spent like 10, 11 years writing. To both learn and to teach other people. It was only natural that I would want to write about immigration because I'd spend so much time teaching myself. Um, I actually thought it'd be a very short book just on O 1 visa, to be very honest, like in the early days, I would say, you know, right after I quit my job, when I filed the O 1 for the first time got it denied, eventually, I just wanted to write a book on the O 1 because I felt like it's a great visa for a lot of. Founders and non founders. But then I got the denial notice in May 2022. Um, it was a very hard day for me. Eventually I moved on from it. And the thing is, it was also hard because waiting for the O 1 approval to come through write this book on immigration. And it didn't come through. So, I started feeling if I didn't have the O 1, who's gonna listen to me? Like, I have no authority to talk about this subject. Why should anyone listen to me right now? And so, well, I think I kind of resolved that in two ways. One is, I actually went out and I was like, I want to find a lawyer who can work on this with me. Who can like proofread the entire book, help make sure that it, you know, it is, it upholds to the highest legal standard. And secondly, I was like, look, even if I don't have the O1, I have done more research than pretty much most people out there on this topic in the last one like year and a half. So I think it's still worth writing. Um, and so I asked Sameer if he's willing to write this book with me. first he said no. Then I asked him again after a month. And then he said, yes. And we went public and on August 9th, 2022, we made a post on LinkedIn announcing the news around the book. And after that, it just, there was a lot of momentum and it took off. So that's the motivation, you know, to answer that question. Um, You also asked me, what do you want people to take away from this? Wow, I'm thinking of many responses, but I don't think that's a good response. What's one thing I want people to take away. I want people to care about immigration for their own lives. Because I think a lot of, for a lot of people, it's an afterthought. don't really think about it until you have to think about it. until you get laid off, you're not really thinking about H 1B's, or until your name doesn't get picked in the lottery, you're not thinking about it.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 21:09

Right.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 21:09

I think the immigration rules and regulations as it is today, they're not really in favor of high skilled immigrants. laws haven't changed in 34 years in any significant way. There are some minor improvements that keep happening. So I do think people need to be more proactive. figuring out, okay, here are the reality of like what the situation is. Here is my goal. Now, how can I make this happen within the system that I'm in? And so I think untrackled is kind of a response to that. Look, the situation is not great, but you can actually do a lot within the current system and we're going to show you exactly how you can do that. Yeah,

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 21:53

So,

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 21:53

good.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 21:54

you know, staying on that subject, um, some that and it is also the H one B season these days, right? So the lottery is going to be opening up. Um, we know. That today in America, there's a lot of Indian immigrants on that H 1B visa already and they're all struggling because of the green card backlog. Right? So now it's not easy to be on that backlog and waiting for 100 and 125 just to get that green card application. A lot of them will never actually receive it. Right. Um, and you speak a lot about this subject. And I think what I wanted to do is ask you a very binary question. Can somebody on an H1B visa transfer to an O1 visa? Is there a way for somebody to actually go from an H1B An H 1B to an O 1. Is that even possible? Because I have a lot of friends who are on an H 1B and, you know, they, they express their plight when we meet in private and they say, um, I don't know what to do. I don't know what, what's going to happen. Maybe I'm going to go back once the kids grow up and all of that stuff. But I tell them that an O 1 visa is a potential for you. And most of them don't even know that's possible or even if it's possible. So I'm not an expert on this subject. So I'm going to ask you, you're the expert on this subject. So can somebody on an H 1B visa transfer to an O 1 visa?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 23:23

I think you're really asking, can someone on H1B transfer to an EB1? Because the O1 is just a temporary work visa.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 23:31

Oh yes, sorry, an E B 1. That's right. I'm, my mistake.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 23:35

worries. Um, yes, of course. Um, thousands of people transfer every single year from an H one B to an EB one. if the answer is it legally possible, then absolutely. Yes. But if you're asking, can just anyone transfer from an H one B to an EB one, then absolutely not because the EB one, it is an extraordinary ability green card.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 23:59

Correct.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 23:59

It is meant for people who are at the top of their fields who have contributed significantly to their field. Um, but I think what happens is people. Hear about DB1. They get very excited. They're like, Oh, there's actually a green card pathway that doesn't require me to be, you know, chained for a hundred years. That's great. And then they go read the requirements and this stuff like international or nationally acclaimed awards,

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 24:29

Correct.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 24:31

salary in your domain, judging the work of your peers and so on. And they feel incredibly demotivated because they feel like, will I ever get this visa? and I think that's actually the point where people should kind of, I hope at least the people listening to this take a step back and think, yeah, I mean, it is hard because it's meant to be hard, but is absolutely possible if strategically plan out the next several years that way, because, you know, I would think that anyone who's a hardworking citizen here, they want to do well, they want to do good for their community. And now it's a question of, can you understand the requirements of the EB1A enough? start working on things that will eventually, like, contribute to all of the pillars under the EB 1. I call them the pillars, the criteria. So, start judging competitions in your area more. Start peer reviewing journal articles in your field. Um, if there's any podcast that's out there, go get yourself on the podcast and start speaking. I think there are these, like, very actionable, doable things that you can do. it may not happen in a few months if you're just starting out. if you don't have anything else to like kind of hinge upon, but I think if you understand the requirements really well, you will start to see that actually it's doable, I just need to. put in the time and effort required for that.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 26:01

That's excellent. So yeah, it's not that you need a Nobel Prize or an Oscar to qualify, right? So there are strategies that adopt and that should help you qualify. And is that what you do at your community? Unshackle? Is that how you guide show them the path towards that transition?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 26:22

Yeah, I think that's part of it. Um, I'd like to think of the Unshackle. club, like Unshackle community as more of a, um, if this was an offline community, let's say it would be, you know, this huge building where one, one part of the building is a discussion forum. You walk in there, you can sit down and talk to other people like yourself who are in your field, kind of trying to get this visa and you go to the other part of the building and you'll. Walk into like a library of resources of master classes that we've had with recipients of these visas, of a list of awards. You can apply to get yourself nominated to a list of competitions. You can judge and so on. And then there is another part of the building where you get to to experts. such as law, actual like lawyers who can evaluate your profile and past recipients of these visas who can talk to you and tell you this is how I got the visa. That's what the community does. It's like a, it's like this one space where we got all these resources and people and experts together. And now you walk in, you need to take, make use of it. You need to actually walk to these different parts of the building and make use of it.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 27:37

And what is the impact you've seen so far through that community? Um, any life changing stories that you're very proud of?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 27:45

Um, yeah, I mean, in the last Six, seven months. We've seen 10 people get the talent visas from within the community. and they all have different stories. Like one person actually told me that it's not really the community, but one person got the O1A recently and he mentioned he didn't get picked in the H1B lottery three times in a row. And then went

Track 1: 28:07

on?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 28:08

went to his company and said. I need some back, like some option. What about the O1? And the company said, do you have publications? He said no. And the company said, okay, then we can't file the O1 for you. Um, and then he, once again, didn't get picked in the H1B lottery a fourth time. And at that point, apparently he'd come across the O 1 chapter from, you know, our book, Unshackled. and reading that gave him the hope that, actually, I can get the O 1. And he spent six months, like, rigorously building his profile towards getting it, and finally got the O 1. So I think, like, all it required was that perspective shift, that going from, there is no way I can do this, to, maybe I have a shot. I just need to put some effort, but

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 28:58

So, so there's a North Star that they're all trying to achieve and what you're trying to do there is them these bite sized milestones that they can, you know, start aiming towards and then slowly, gradually building their profile, which helps them qualify better.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 29:16

Yeah, I actually think that's a very different and nice way of putting it. A North Star and bite sized nuggets. Um, yeah, I think, you know, some people I don't think the community is a substitute for hard work. And that's something I'm very clear on it generally,

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 29:33

Correct.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 29:34

people come and ask, Oh, is this like a mentorship program where I just have to follow the steps? I, I don't think there's any set steps. Um, you know, we've put all these together for you, but you still have to do the hard work because these are talent visas.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 29:50

That is true. No, I think unless there is talent, um, you just cannot get it right. It's just that talent also needs direction. That talent needs motivation. So I think what you're doing with that community is just that right, especially when that talent is down and tired and, you know, they're out of motivation. They feel that this is not possible when they speak to other peers and tell them it is possible and, you know, I think that encouragement also helps because I know a lot of people who can go run a 10K just because they got motivated enough, right? Otherwise they would barely walk a hundred steps. it isn't.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 30:32

just to give a quick like analogy on that, because you said the 10k thing, um, two days ago I've been, I'm doing a challenge with myself, where in this for 30 days, I wanted to do a 5k every single day, really more like a six or seven K, because that's the distance I run. And

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 30:49

Okay.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 30:50

two days ago, I woke up and, um, It was raining, it was so cold, it was very dark in the morning, and I had a lot of reasons to not do it, but for whatever reason, I woke up with this, just this sense of, have to run today, and I ended up running my best time, despite it being raining, like it was pouring down, I was drenched by the time I was done. I was cold and numb and my feet were soggy, but it took was just this one like notion of waking up and feeling like I can do this. Um, and yeah, I think we all feel this way, right? Like there are certain days when you wake up and you just feel invincible. I feel like I can do anything today. So I think with these visas. you just need one such day like wake up and feel like I can do this. So,

Track 1: 31:41

Is it so easy? I mean, the way you described it, that, one day we were talking about getting talent, right?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 31:48

oh

Track 1: 31:48

And

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 31:49

I didn't mean getting talent. I think I meant, um, like starting the process getting the talent visa. That's all.

Track 1: 31:58

That's cool. So it's very inspiring to see your, clarity of thought and focus towards, your multifaceted career, I would say, and actually, you know, there are multiple things that you could do. So how did you decide what? What went on in your mind?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 32:15

Um, how do I decide if I want to write books or

Track 1: 32:18

Yeah. Yeah.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 32:19

So there's, um, interesting, the question you just asked me, unlock a different thought in my head, because I realized I have been writing since I was 16. So I'm 27 now, and I've been writing for 11 years. Um, it feels like it's a part of me. It's something that I do every single day in different forms. and so writing books, it. Because I'd spent so many years writing in undergrad and grad school, it was almost inevitable that I would write a book someday. Um, and thing though is I have two published books, but I have four unpublished books. Things that I started and then eventually never finished. and one of them is actually a fiction novel. So I think, in terms of why I chose to write, probably thanks to my undergrad clubs. I joined a bunch of content writing clubs back then. um, they inspired me to keep going. Um, and also feedback. I think I know there's people who can keep doing something even if nobody around them gives them positive reinforcement. They just do it because they inherently feel like I'm meant to do this. don't think I'm one of those. Um, I think with writing, I fortunately got feedback from people on stuff I published. In those years. as you get feedback on, let's say you publish an article. I still remember one of the first articles that went quote unquote viral in some small sense was an article I wrote on the theory of general relativity. So I wrote about physics a lot back then. and this article semi viral within our university. In my second year of college. and that just gave me so much boost because until then I don't think like even one or two people read what I wrote. I was just doing it for myself. at some point I realized, huh, I'm actually now I'm helping other people. So that gives you enough motivation to keep going for another. I don't know, 10 articles. And then you get another article where you get a lot of feedback from people and people keep telling you things like, you taught me something, you have a great writing style. Um, and yeah, so on and so forth after that. But, um, to answer your question on why community building or why. You know, building a company. I think all of those things happened along the way of writing like it's it almost feels like you have your own plans and then the universe has its own plans for you and Most of the times they don't really match. They're like you think you're gonna go this way But then slowly you keep getting nudged towards this other goal and at some point you realize, huh, actually this new goal makes a lot of sense. And so that's how the Unshackle community feels like. It wasn't something I planned to do at all.

Track 1: 35:21

So this is, there is a very important point in what you said. Is that, you used to write, but when, you started getting external validation, that is what motivates people. So maybe, it's a takeaway for readers and listeners that you should seek external validation because many a times it will not come automatically.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 35:41

You know, I want to make a clarification there because I realize it's almost like a bell curve where, um, let's say that the y axis is External validation and x axis is like your motivation. Actually, forget the x axis. Let's just talk about the y axis. Um, in the beginning, write just for yourself or I wrote just for myself. I wasn't looking for external validation. I just really enjoyed writing about physics and astronomy. And then at some point, I started getting external validation. you get a lot of it, a lot of it, a lot of it, and that keeps you going enough for you to get to a point where even that is not necessary anymore. And now you're like back to square one, but with a lot more skill than before, because you'd been, you spent the last 10 years writing. Because right now I would say that even if nobody reads the next 10 articles I publish, I would still write anyway, because it gives me a lot of, happiness.

Track 1: 36:42

You know, that's a very big boost. I mean, what you just said is a motivation factor for me and Amit also. We can also get motivated the same way. We are in the beginning of, what you started way back. So right Amit,

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 36:56

Yes.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 36:56

going to be a matter of time. Yeah,

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 36:58

I think that's very true. And personally, I also feel while you may seek feedback, and you may seek opinions from your peers or friends and family, but at the end of the day, what matters most is satisfaction, right? That, okay, I had something to express, I expressed, and you're not suppressing what you wanted to express, right? So go ahead out there, um, Say what you want to say. Um, you know, write what you want to write. Um, speak what you want to speak, but do that and don't keep it to yourself. Don't judge yourself and don't look at others for that validation. Because there are times when I go on to Linton and I post something and I don't really care about what people are going to think about it because that was in my mind. Maybe after a few minutes, I'll go back and delete it. I had to express it. I expressed it. And then I say, Okay, I'm going to take it off because okay, it may be too offensive, but I still feel relieved that I was able to go out and just express that opinion in one way. So I feel personally. You shouldn't really judge yourself too much. Um, and going viral is not the end goal here, right? It is about sure that you're not suppressing your thoughts because that's where problems will start.

Track 1: 38:22

it's kind of unshackling your mind.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 38:25

We're going to use this. Um, interestingly, what you just said you talked about social media and I just realized something once again, you guys are helping me. Like unlock certain things in my mind. Thanks to your questions and thoughts. Um, there is the way I think about my LinkedIn versus Instagram is different. I have been posting consistently for probably a year and a half, almost right now that at this point, I think in habits and not goals, meaning. The habit I have is I sit down every week for a few hours. My Deb, my social media manager helps me in curating topics and doing some preliminary research and I write posts for the entire week and we publish every single day. Like, I don't think we've missed, maybe we've missed one here and there, but we've never really missed like, you know, a few days in a row for the last eight, nine months. And I don't even care about the response as much as in terms of like likes and comments. It's obviously amazing when people reshare and like and comment, if a post doesn't do as well, I don't even let it bother me. I just like kind of move on because I'm like, well, the habit is to write. So but with Instagram, because I'm still very early on in there, um, it's only been three months since I started being more active over there, realize. actually, like it, I care more about the reaction. I get there, the feedback I get then on LinkedIn. And I'm seeing this like same, you know, chart of in Instagram. I'm still in that phase of needing external validation, but with LinkedIn, kind of passed that phase right now.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 40:17

And I, I feel that's also because the two platforms, while you can do the same thing on LinkedIn, but Instagram is more multimedia you know, focused, right? So videos and images, whereas LinkedIn is more about the copy. So on, on Insta, it is. People are reacting to what they see. and then they read the caption later, right? Or they'll react to what they hear. And they don't even read the caption on Insta. on LinkedIn, they're going to actually read that messaging. So. The output there, um, and the time to react is very different. And Insta is also pretty much instant in that sense, right? On LinkedIn, I think your content will stay around, linger for a couple of days and even weeks. So I think that also plays a lot of, impact in how you see those results.

Track 1: 41:10

Mind also, you know, when they're on Insta, they're in a different frame of mind and they're LinkedIn. They're in a different frame of mind.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 41:16

Yeah. And you know, the funny thing is like a few posts have gone viral on Instagram in the last few months. and I feel like the same thing happened with LinkedIn. Cause I do think if you publish consistently enough, eventually something will, the algorithm will push something. Um, and so with LinkedIn, it happened September, October of 2022. That was the first few months where it started doing that. Instagram, I'm still very new to watching things go viral. there's this expectations that I have on Instagram for, Oh, I hope this next one does. And I realized now that think so differently about LinkedIn and Instagram. That with LinkedIn, I feel much more mature, detached and grounded that I don't feel that way. and it's a good kind of takeaway for me to maybe think about, like, how can I push myself to feel more the same way with Instagram and in general about social media, any new ones that I mentioned into as well.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 42:17

Sandhya, speaking about Instagram, that reminds me about students and universities, and you've got an upcoming tour and you're going to be going around universities in America, um, and helping students. Do you want to share a little bit about what you plan to do and, what's the agenda of that tour?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 42:38

Yes, absolutely. Again, this was a mere idea a few months ago. I having lunch with my professor, Chuck Garcia, from Columbia University back in November 2023, he mentioned over lunch, have you thought about doing a tour? I mean, have you thought about coming to Columbia and speaking about Unshackled? I had thought about it. I mean, I always thought maybe we could do some sort of a speaking tour for Unshackle. For many reasons, it didn't make sense to me. But then the same day that told me this, I got an email from, um, somebody at MobSquad. Who eventually became our title sponsor for the book tour saying that, Hey, if you're thinking of hosting like a book launch for Unshackled in New York, we'd love to be a potential sponsor for it. And it just felt like, okay, the universe is trying to tell me something right now. How is it the same within a few hours from each other? Two people down similar things. Um, then I began about it more talking to Rajesh, other people. Um, and I decided that. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do a book tour sometime March or April 2024. I don't know how I'm gonna get sponsors or where I'm gonna go speak. No idea. Um, so that was the inception of the book tour. So now it is confirmed that we will be visiting, in a sense 13 universities, but we'll be actually addressing students from 15 universities because we're combining some events together. universities, hopefully reaching over 3, 000 students in person and, um, we will be visiting four different cities, Francisco, Bay Area, York City, Boston, and in Texas, a few different cities for different, because Texas is just so huge. And, um, this is happening in April. is an entirely free event for students. one has to pay anything. In fact, We're going to be bringing benefits worth like 6, 000 to all these universities. because we're going to get lawyers on these tours who can actually talk to students and address any questions students have. Usually to get in front of a lawyer and get their time is it costs money, hundreds of dollars. These are lawyers with decades of experience coming there. Um, experts on visas and. So I really hope that anyone who's listening to this who is a student or who knows somebody who is comes attends these events because we want This to be kind of the, the inflection point for somebody's immigration career, like a student who walks into this event and walks out, they should never look at immigration the same way again. And they should be like a hundred percent far ahead from someone who didn't attend the event, who didn't know about talent visas or O 1s or how to build a startup on a visa and so on.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 45:36

That's excellent, Soundarya I wish you all the best for that tour. Um, in fact, just yesterday we were speaking to this young student. I must mention him because I did promise him that I'm gonna talk about him a little bit. His name is Rohan Pradyumna. He just completed his master's and now he's actually gone ahead and up a startup called Travanna travanna. io is his website. And, he was able to stop his OPT clock on the basis of his startup. And I was very, surprised when I heard that and I was like, wow you've managed to come up with something again, extraordinary in a way, because not a lot of students, because I see a lot of students reaching out to me every other day saying, Hey, I'm on this OPT clock. I just have 90 days and I have to, you know, find something very quickly. And here I meet Rohan who is gone ahead and he's. He's taking control of his life. He's gone ahead and, you know, set up something, um, beautiful. And in fact, um, I would recommend you to go and see his website. I think one of the best user experiences that I've actually seen on this, on a website. um, um, so those are the kind of students which I feel, inspired from, right, because they're not out there complaining, going on these marches and saying, you know. the American dream is broken. No, they're actually going in and building their dream by themselves. So I feel proud of their achievements. And I think what you're going to do in this tour is also going to inspire many more Rohans in the future.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 47:15

So beautifully said. Absolutely. I think the tour is meant to create more Rohan's people who are proactive, who are informed, and who take matters into their own hands, and they're not waiting for things to happen to them. So the, yeah, that's the end goal of this tour, honestly.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 47:33

I think you should call it the empowered tour, right? You're not, the unshackled and empowered is what I would say is really the mantra of that tour. So wish you all the best for that.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 47:46

Yeah. And on that, I just wanted to mention today, you know, Um, my best friend who is going to accompany me on the tour and be the MC and moderator, he and I were talking about what do we want people to feel when they walk away event. And the few words we came up with were empowered, optimistic, and informed. So I, you captured it very well.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 48:08

That's great. So I'm gonna you have a lot of gigs going on at the same time. You're writing books, you're active on social, you're building a community. You're also investing in companies that there's rock climbing on your list of things. You just mentioned about the six K, five K that you run every day. So how do you manage your time and your schedule? So what's a typical day in your life?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 48:37

I'm almost tempted to say there is no typical day, but the more accurate answer is that. Typical day changes few months or weeks sometimes because just last week this time I was in India. I was in Bangalore. was in the office in person with My two full time employees from India, who work with me on community and sales. And, um, there, my schedule was something on the lines of up at seven, having calls in the morning, as soon as I wake up, because, you know, us times. So you have to accommodate, and then going to the office, working with, in, in person with my employees, um, the entire day, like I'll be, I split my days into. On the mornings I would do book tour stuff and sponsorship and partnership stuff. And then afternoon and evening, I would do either deep work or working on community. and then ending my day at like eight or 9 PM hopefully meeting a friend for dinner and then going to sleep was a very like simple. Day in that sense right now, it's a little different. I would say since I'm in San Francisco and I began this challenge 5k challenge with myself. I the last at least five days. I've been waking up at 6 a. m. every day. going on either a very long walk or a run getting ready by 7 30 a. m. having a call with my team in India at 8 a. m. for a check in. and then getting to the office. Spending the first few hours on still sponsorships and partnership stuff because that's important. And I don't do it as the first thing in the day, I procrastinate on that. So I kind of forced myself to do The hardest thing, first thing in the day and then spending kind of post afternoon working on so much marketing promotion and operations for the book door. Like did a book launch event last year in SF for Unshackled. I thought that was hard. I'm doing that in 15 locations and it is just the kind of work that's going in and like there's just so many issues that come up every single day but I try to finish everything by 7 p. m in fact this is the last thing I'm going to do for today um and I tell myself I'm forcing myself to human connection after 7 p. m like go meet a friend spend time with roommates call a friend like any people time 7 to 9 and then going to sleep by 9 30.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 51:20

that's good. I think you still take off the human connection because both Raul and me are human. We're not AI bots. Um, so yeah, I think you're doing well on that.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 51:30

Are you sure? Yes.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 51:33

Okay, perfect. Thank you so much on that. I have a final few rapid fire questions. Hopefully, um, you'll find them interesting. And, um, tough. So let me start with the first one. And Rahul, you go up with the next one. So pineapple on

Track 1: 51:49

Yeah,

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 51:49

Yes or no?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 51:52

No. Wait,

Track 1: 51:57

okay. If there's a movie.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 51:58

I just say no? No. That's right.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 52:01

it's good.

Track 1: 52:01

Okay. Yeah.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 52:02

it's good.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 52:03

Okay.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 52:03

Unless you have a strong opinion on why no. Okay.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 52:07

no, because I don't like pizza at all in the first place. So.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 52:11

So, okay. So that's, that question itself is disqualified.

Track 1: 52:14

If there's a movie on your life, who would you like to place on? The

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 52:19

Oh my God.

Track 1: 52:21

don't place on the

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 52:22

I doubt there'll ever be one, but if there ever was one, who is an actress I've admired? Um, well, I always, I loved Arya from Game of Thrones because her name also is part of my name. Um, so I'm very, and I really just admire her resilient spirit. So maybe I've never thought about this

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 52:44

Okay, cool. If you could go back in time, What would you do differently?

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 52:51

totally depends on which year and which moment in time, but if I could go back in time to like 17, before I started college, then. I would have definitely chosen a different major or maybe even skipped college. Who knows?

Track 1: 53:06

first app. You check every morning.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 53:08

Lately, it's Spotify because I, when I go on a walk or run, I listen to certain playlists.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 53:15

Any quirky rituals that most people don't know

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 53:18

Quirky rituals. Okay. Quirky rituals. Okay, this is a little bit quirky, but, Generally, when I leave my house to go to the office and walk, um, so I wear sunglasses, you know, a lot in general. And when I wear the sunglasses, though, I like to listen to a certain song that makes me feel badass. Um, and so that song is Swimming Pool by Kendrick Lamar. I Yeah, that's a ritual, I would say.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 53:49

of? I don't know if I'm going to get the rights for that song to insert into this video, but we'll figure out some way or the other. Thank you so much, Soundarya it's been such a pleasure, um, having you and hosting you on the Indian Community Podcast. I feel your journey, And all the insights that you've shared with us today they're inspiring and also a beacon of hope. Um, and you know, for a lot of immigrants, we thank you for the time, the wisdom and the impactful work that you continue to do. Um, we're cheering for you on, from the side. So. I think we're really glad to see all the achievements that you've already reached and you will continue to reach. So thank you once again for being part of our show and sharing your extraordinary story.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 54:42

Thank you, and I

Track 1: 54:43

Thank you.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 54:44

you guys did such a great job curating the questions for the show and engaging with the responses. I had a blast being on the show. Thanks so much.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 54:54

Thank you. And,

Track 1: 54:55

Thank you.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 54:57

when you think of the Indian community, right? So you work with a lot of immigrants. I'm assuming a lot of them are Indians also. Any message that you would like to leave behind for all our listeners and, you know, predominantly they're all Indian immigrants living somewhere or the other. So any last message that you would want to leave us with.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 55:17

Oh gosh, um, with respect to immigration, The message is that there are more options than you'd think and you just have to change your perspective. With life, I think it's, I really encourage people to take more risks. Um, I think people, we are generally risk averse as humans and especially for someone who is early on in their life and doesn't have a lot of dependencies, that they should take more risks. So that's my message.

amit-gupta_1_03-07-2024_211742: 55:48

Excellent. Thank you so much, Soundarya. Thank you for being on the show.

soundarya-balasubramani--she-her-_1_03-07-2024_181804: 55:52

Thank you.