NRI Protection Bill - Challenges Faced by NRIs in India #33

Challenges Faced by NRIs in India | Indian Community Podcast

In this episode of the Indian Community Podcast, host Amit welcomes two esteemed guests, Subhash Ballapanavar and Prashanth Panduranga, who are actively advocating for the rights and protection of non-resident Indians (NRIs). 

They discuss the economic impact of NRIs on India's forex reserves and the significant issues NRIs face, such as property disputes, financial frauds, and the lack of legal recourse due to distance and systemic inefficiencies. They emphasize the need for a centralized investigation agency and a dedicated court system to address NRI issues promptly. 

The guests share their personal experiences of being defrauded and outline the key demands of the proposed NRI Protection Bill. They also highlight a recent campaign to raise awareness and push for institutional changes to safeguard NRI investments and properties.

This episode is essential for NRIs looking to understand the challenges they may face and the ongoing efforts to protect their interests.

Visit : https://www.change.org/
Connect with Subhash Ballapanavar on Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/subhasb 

𝐉𝐨𝐢𝐧 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐮𝐬:
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Connect with Amit Gupta on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amit-gupta-cx/
Connect with Rahul Mehra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahulmehra/

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00:00 Introduction to NRI Issues in India
00:27 Meet the Advocates for NRI Rights : Subhash Ballapanavar and Prashanth Panduranga
01:38 Economic Impact of NRIs on India
03:30 Common Issues Faced by NRIs
04:50 Types of Fraud Targeting NRIs
07:25 Personal Experiences and Legal Battles of NRIs
00:19 The NRI Protection Bill: Key Demands
28:00 Motivation and Future Steps for NRIs
32:30 Conclusion and Call to Action

#india 
#nri 
#nriprotectionbill
#nridemands
#protectnris
#helpNRIs
#indiancommunity 
#SubhashBallapanavar
#prashanthPanduranga

Transcript

Amit Gupta: 0:00

what are the most common issues NRIs are facing today in India. Especially the NRIs cannot go and fight any issue arises a small issue like, see a scam of one or two lakhs or three lakhs, five lakhs, you know, we cannot go and fight because the ticket cost itself is around lakhs of rupees, so what are the key demands of your NRI Protection Bill? the first and foremost is a centralized investigation agency.

Prashanth Panduranga: 0:27

Hello and welcome to the Indian Community Podcast. Today we have two remarkable guests who are leading a significant initiative to protect the rights of non resident Indians across the world. Our first guest, Subhash Ballapanavar. Brings over 25 years of technology experience and holds three patents. He has been instrumental in advocating for the NRI protection bill and he is pushing for systemic changes to safeguard NRI investments and properties. And our second guest today is Prashanthhh Panduranga. He's a senior cardiologist at the Royal Hospital in Oman. And alongside his medical expertise. He's also been a staunch supporter of NRI rights and is actively involved in addressing the challenges faced by NRIs in India. Subhash and Prashanthhhh, welcome to the Indian Community Podcast. Thank you, Amit. Thank you. Great. So let's start off with why is this important? Can you discuss the economic impact NRIs are having on India's forex reserves? And why protecting the rights of NRIs is crucial for the Indian economy? See Amit, NRIs individually, they can contribute around 135 billion dollars every year as a part of forex reserve, okay? And that plays a major role in Indian GDP and that has a ripple impact subsequently in other part of the economy also, right? And When we do this and we, it may be in terms of investment in lands, investment in apartment and villas or in the bank because we get higher interest rates. No doubt GDP is at 10 percent and definitely we get more returns. And that is the one aspect of our investment in India. And the second thing is if you consider if you invest the same amount of money in your residence country, where GDP is one or 2 percent and the return will be very less and even interest rates are less and That's the reason definitely we look for our mother country, especially. And we also hope that, you know, our retirement will be in our residence country. One day that investment will give a fruit, you know, in at the end of our means leaning years of our life. That is the other point. That's right. You're absolutely right. That is, that is definitely one of the dreams that people have is, of course, you want to make some money, invest that money in, in the right kind of assets, and then watch them grow. And eventually when you retire, you want to bear those fruits. So, Let us, let us try and understand

Amit Gupta: 3:30

what are the most common issues NRIs are facing today in India. Especially the NRIs cannot go and fight any issue arises because a small issue like, see a scam of one or two lakhs or three lakhs, five lakhs, you know, we cannot go and fight because the ticket cost itself is around, you know. lakhs of rupees,

Prashanth Panduranga: 3:51

right? So we ignore such kind of things, okay? If anything more than that, around 50 lakhs or one crore, and if you wanted to file a FIR or anything in the police station also, we cannot, because there is no online system at all. And Bangalore allows online filing, but only for mobile theft or only silly, some small things, not for major crimes. That is very surprising. Okay. And To file a FIR, we need to be present or someone on our behalf, they have to file our case, okay? In my case, my sister is there, she is leading that effort, that will be cool. But in, in some other case, you know, the one son or two son, they all ignore end of the day, you know, they, if they spend, you know, their effort, investment, everything here in residence country, they can gain more, you know, but they will ignore that thing. That's the reason the, the hacker, the poor that accused people, they will target NRS in this situation, in this kind of examples, especially. So can you share some examples in terms of what kind of fraud is happening with NRIs? So while one of the issues is that it's not easy for you to report the fraud, but what are the different types of fraud that, that are commonly observed by your group? Thank you. I can, I can list inherited property. Okay. In India, there is a law, right? If somebody is using our land for more than 10 years, they can claim adverse claim on that land, agriculture land or whatever. And we are NRH, we live here almost 20 years, you know, somebody will be using that land, they will pay, till today they will pay now. After 10 years, they can claim adverse position through the court and they can, and they can officially get the rights on that. Okay. We are asking that is the very first thing from the Indian government to abolish that or at least for NRIs. Okay. That is the one thing. Second thing is, If we invest in bank, okay, it's a FD, and there are many examples, FD is being withdrawn by forging the signature, you know, there are many, you can read the paper articles if you Google, you can find that one, that is the second thing. And the third thing is real estate, you know, if we invest in some builders, these NRIs come and invest and they will, They will come here in US, they will go to Oman, they will go to Australia, they will advertise, they will show the moon, you know. When we invest and at the end of the day, they mentioned some clause, only Indian laws are applicable. Something, we sign that contract and we are We cannot question that one in our residence country. And once they you know, they may hand over the position. They may not that they will extend that one almost 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, you know, because there is no accountability in India. We cannot go and file a complaint. And even if you file a complaint also, they cannot file a charge sheet that may extend up to three, four years after filing the charges. The charge sheet may not be. Strong enough to implicate those accused, you know, and when we go into the court, the court system, you know, that any one case can extend up to nine years, 10 years, 20 years. See, you can see those, those things, those are all obstacles and we are requesting such kind of things to be minimized, you know, in timely manner should be resolved. These are our main agenda. Right. So Subash and Prashanthhh, I'm sure there was an incident that has triggered this this movement and both of you have been affected personally and financially with, with, with losses in India. So can you share a little bit about what was your personal experience what happened and what are you doing to, to address that? And how are you fighting your, your backing? So basically basically the majority of these cases are property of the NRX. So they came here, most of these, as Subash said, the builders all come here, advertise in the hotels and, you know, they impress us with their brochure and so many things. So one of the project in Bangalore was on Urbana, so where we all invested for whatever reason the construction has been done, but it's not completed, it's not handed over, and we all formed an association and went to various courts, including RERA, NCDRC, NCLT, then uh, criminal uh, as well as FIR. All these were done. But the main drawback is very slow process. And the basic thing is we are not there to go and see, even though our liars are there to do the job. But we are personally not there. We not required. Right. This is one of the things which NI is replacing. And there, there are decisions given by the rarer for the buyers who are affected. But it is a slow process. So what we demand is NRI should have a separate cell to deal, deal with these things, including a separate port as such where they are fast tracked. So that the early justice is done. Got it. Got it. And, and Subash, what happened to you? You know, what, what led you to, to this stage? Yeah. See I have a lot of inherited properties around 10, 12 acres along the riverside. And my father is a farmer and a teacher. And I used to send whatever earnings here in US to my father. Father used to Go and park that money in a society. It's called a farmer's society. Government managed, monitored, and the, the society secretary and after my father's demise, he put the signature and made a nominee of those fixed deposits as his wife as a nominee and withdraw all the money. Okay. The funny thing is when legal heads, classroom legal heads are present. You know, the nominee will there are many Supreme Court judgments where nominee will be just a facilitator. She cannot assume the, the profit out of that one. She cannot own that one. And the second thing is the society directors, how they allow to withdraw that money. This is the very first problem. And when I filed a fire with my sister cell, I know the, they were not trying to charge it almost two, three years and we went to the high court to request the high court to, you know, asking police to file a fire. This is the one aspect and second aspect is the, the secretary took a loan on our FDs. On top of our FDs and on top of that, whatever the earnings from our agriculture land, a sugarcane bill, etc, you know, he adjusted to that one and he cleared those loans. So, means we are not earned our income also. And he is a beneficial. So, it's all around the 60 to 70 lakhs rupees with interest. It is of rupees now. Okay. After filing the fire, the accused and accused brothers, you know, kind of, stole our sugarcane in our field, you know, And they submitted they send sugarcane to the, the sugar factories. I contacted sugar factories and I blocked the bills. Now they removed the sugarcane. Now they are trying to do a local crop. And they are, they are, you know, something, such kind of things are happening. It's all together around four to five, twelve bucks in my own case. Absolutely. I think that's, that's very you know, disappointing to hear, especially because it's hard earned money which you were carefully investing, but of course, if there is fraud on the other side, then that's, that's something that you have to fight for. And So I know you, you guys had a very strong campaign this year and there was a, it was a very interesting campaign and it was a group that came together. That's how I also came to know about you. In fact, I also went to the High commission in Atlanta, but I'll not steal the thunder. So can you tell us a little bit about the group that you have you know, or the community that you are building and the, the, the incredible campaign that you had launched. This is all started one of our article written by TNI, by Bansi Kalappa. And on top of that, I started a group, WhatsApp group, and it is started growing like a mushroom, you know, within a month or within two months, it is thousands of people gathered, you know, they all, and we started the change. org, some petition and people are, you can go and read those. The comments, you know, and everybody know, everybody aware of this issue. Okay? One of the person I talking, I know, I asked him, do you have any issue? He said, the moment we land in airport, the auto or taxi will start charging double foreign NRIs. We Okay? So we are victim in every step everywhere, one small or big. So such kind of things happen inside. Then we come up with some thought in how to make awareness among NRIs, how to make awareness among the government itself, you know, then I come up with this idea of submitting this petition to the NRIs. I thought only a couple of consulate and high commission, but people are gathered from across the world. Then we increased that number to 20 consulate and high commission worldwide, but it went to more than 2030 and we've successfully submitted 2025, I guess. And almost all continent we touched. And the article in says that this is one of the biggest campaign by Indians outside the India. You know, after Maba Gandhi campaign? You know, such kind of campaign in South Africa, et cetera, you know, the, he considered this as the biggest campaign outside of India by any Indian. So this is what we are. Now we need to, we are contacting government, et cetera. We'll see where it will go. We formulated some bill, et cetera. Right. Yeah. So luckily, luckily Atlanta Kiran's supposed to go and submit, but because of issue he wouldn't able to do then when we asked Kiran, he pitched you and you are very eagerly helped and I'm thankful for your help on that matter. And you are associated with this moment now, we can say. No, absolutely. I think, no, basically it's an NRI protection. We are asking for an NRI protection bill with so many demands, which Subash and others have drafted it, which has been basically given to prime minister see Narendra Modi through the embassies. So we hope that it has reached him and the government and himself and the cabinet. They take cognizance of this and do some rules and regulations for the benefit of the MRIs. We hope that is our hope. Absolutely. That's, that's very true. And I think because I was there on the ground personally, and I am sure when you were also meeting all these senior leaders, they were all very positive and receptive. They were at least listening to the problem and not you know, rejecting the problem up front, right? So there was there was some positivity there in in one way, I would say. And of course that you followed the right route. You've you've gone and complained and you know, expressed your concerns to the right authorities who will then do their duty, which is to take it up to the to the you know, furthermore appropriate authority. So I think that, that is absolutely

Amit Gupta: 16:15

correct. So what are the key demands of your NRI Protection Bill?

Prashanth Panduranga: 16:19

So I know there may be a lot of things in there, but what would be the key elements that you would expect the government to prioritize for NRIs?

Amit Gupta: 16:30

Yeah, the first and foremost is a centralized investigation agency.

Prashanth Panduranga: 16:34

Okay. One point of contact, you know, we cannot go and contact each state's law. Law and order lies with state. We know that, but in this situation, NRIs contribute to the central government for its entity. So we expect central governments to protect us in this term, like a centralized investigation agency. In arriving among CBI and separate court, you know, online filing, online request, and online everything. You know, the High Court considers today online witnesses everything. So I don't see any obstacles in this case. This is the very first demand. That will ease our even smallest of small crime. Also, we can go and lodge that complaint, you know, and we can see the status where it is, what it is, and we are expecting that to be solved within 90 days as a filing of a fire and next 90 days core system. So you know, within six months, the thing should be shut up, settled, you know, that is our expectation. That is the first thing. Okay. Second thing is legal protection of property disputes, like whatever the properties we take, you know, NRI means It should be protected like it's a special status for NRA properties because we are not on the ground. We cannot go and see that our property is there or not. We know such kind of things will happen. That is the reason we are asking. Third thing is non bailable warrants to the accused parties, you know, the NRA means easy target, you know. They have to block that, you know, now they, we need to create some kind of fear in them, you know, NRI, okay, you should not touch NRI like that kind of things. So if you file a fire, means and we also see that, you know, there are many cases if NRI tried to protest, there is a counter fires against MRIs in my case the day after filing the a i the next, the very next day, week. They filed a fire against us, you know, saying that we hit a woman and there are so many clauses against that one. But finally, the police submitted the report. That is the second thing, but that created so much tension, pressure, you know, mental instability, this thing all for the six months, you know, such kind of things we, we should avoid that one. There should not be any counter fire. And in any officer involved in such kind of counter fire, any officer, he should be punished. That is our major goal. And the other things are like ease of conjecture, okay, in the context cross in terms of tedious direction, et cetera. Citizens as well as NRIs. It should be informed. And provision of online voting also we are asking. And NRIs and OCIs are not allowed to be executor or a trustee or beneficiary in any part of the trustee, you know. That is, again, we are asking. We are NRIs, end of the day, we are also citizens. And even though OCIs also, we are contributing to the country. Thank you. You know, the reason we are all asking this, because we are, we are contributing to the Indian government, Indian countries, our motherland, we seek all these protections. Excellent. And Prashanthhhh. See, it is like, yeah, it's not that it is not possible. Even though India is so many states are there, when I went through Punjab, they have done that after so many years of you know, property issues there and pressure from Canadian Punjabis. So there is a separate NRI ministry. I don't know. I'm not very sure about ministry, but a secret rate is there. Who all deal with the NRI issues and say NRI police sell separate where they manage all these. So Kerala has got a separate NRI ministry or a S rate. So it is not, not that it is impossible. So what we demand is, can be done at all India level so that we have a, a very proper channel to approach. That's good. So I think that's encouraging to hear that at least there is some you know, let's say provisions or some measures in place for states where we have seen more migrant population in the NRI community, right? So Punjab, Kerala, you, you and Andhra. So there's a lot of migrants from these. States outside of India. So I'm sure that has led to that, um, more awareness and, and which also means that there were more incidents of these these kind of scams which led to these sort of measures being taken. So, hopefully with all the activation that you're doing now and you, you know, you're continuously on every other forum talking about this advocating for this. I'm sure that this is going to be taken up at a more senior level and a more serious attempt to make it at a, at a national you know, level. Now There's also a PIL that that you're there is there is some effort that you're putting towards a PIL or a public interest litigation on this subject. What is the primary outcome that you are hoping to achieve from that PIL? What what are you going to be asking as part of that PIL? And what do you want the outcome to be? Through PIL we are requesting Supreme Court to investigate our issues, individual issues, but it that accounts to anywhere between hundred to 2004 worth of scam okay. Correct, correct. And second part is how Supreme Court play a role in protect. In our eyes, in terms of those bills, whatever you proposed, and of the day government has to pass that bill in the, in the, in the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha. So, Supreme Court can definitely favoring in our support, you know, may lead to the bill, etc. That is also possible. But we are in a discussion with a couple of advocates you know, to chat about that, how it will be. At this time. That's good. Okay. Yeah, that's that's going to be interesting. We're we're going to be watching out for that PIL and you know, rooting for you and hooting for you in that sense. So that's nice. There is one question that I've always had whenever I've thought about your movement, Subash and Prashanthhh. And this is something which I feel is on our side of the coin, right? So there are two sides of a coin. So now there is, there is also the NRI side of the coin. What do you think leads to some NRIs falling into this trap, right? So see, there are, there are situations where things are happening from. You know, the these antisocial elements within the country, but from our side also from as as NRIs, what are the things that are leading to some of these situations, which we should also be careful of and not fall for it. You know, so sometimes it is you are, you are seeing an unbelievable offer or sometimes somebody is trying to, you know, bypass certain rules. You know, I I've seen people saying Oh, there's a 20 percent tax. If I'm going to sell my property in India let me figure out another way. And then, you know, they end up losing more than even saving. So what do you think are the responsibilities of NRIs so that they can avoid. As best as they can to find themselves in these situations. The one thing is our group itself. There are so many people asking for, you know, whether is it safe to invest in this property, this builder, you know, we are providing that kind of feedback, et cetera. Second thing is awareness among ourselves. Okay. You know, if we invest, it's a one way track. So, how, how to avoid that all those things, you know, if you're sure about you are going back to India and settling in India as a retirement life, etc. That is good. Okay. But if the government comes up protection of this bill. The investment will double, triple because we, most of them know that if we invest, it is not going to come back and this will, this will, the government will get benefit out of this bill, you know, that is one I can say. Second thing is the Google, you know, wherever you wanted to invest, et cetera, you have to Google, et cetera. You will find a lot of articles related to the bank or builder many things. Prashanthhhh,

Amit Gupta: 25:22

if

Prashanth Panduranga: 25:22

you can add. Yeah. See the, the main issue as you, as Amit was telling, the NRIs one is greediness. What I can say greediness in the sense when there are offers, they will come with offers, especially these builders, property guys. They come here with so many offers and you fall trapped to that. And second thing, you don't do a background check because there is no time. You are busy with your work in the other country, wherever you are residing. You don't even simple Google. As I said, a simple Googling of that builder or the property thing, you will get hundreds of cases. Even now, where, where my property case is there, even three months ago, NRIs are, have paid money. Last eight years, eight years, court cases are going on. Then they say, we don't know. So the, the, the responsibility is on the NRIs also. They don't go through a background check of whatever investment they are doing. And they don't own that headache basically. So once they come and meet this builder and they trust, this is another thing we trust more than the local Indians. There is a big difference. If you are a resident Indian, you will suspect everybody, but here we don't suspect because we have not come through this type of cheating. So we trust and immediately believe the Indian property builders. So this is also an issue. That's a very good point Prashanthhhhi. In fact, I'm now thinking whether there is a, there is a common place where we can find this information of you know, builders where there should be a watch out before you invest, right? So is there a list that we can maintain somewhere, For In in in public interest, right? Saying, okay you know, even in this group of 1000 people, 2000 people that you have, right? If if everybody was to just list the names of the builders that they are already you know, fighting a case against that will at least give People one avenue to rethink before they invest that kind of money, right? That might be something that the Indian community website can help you with. Maybe we can, we can host that information if that is available. We can definitely consider hosting that. Yeah. Yeah. That will be a very good point. If you take initiative, we all can come and provide those data. Correct. Correct. No, absolutely. We can, we can take this offline and we can talk about this further. Finally I want to ask you, you know, This is a very sensitive subject, right? Subash and Prashanthhh, what is motivating you to be fighting this because it's not easy to be fighting these giants, right? And, and fighting from such a distance. So, and the loss of money is, is all is already there, right? You are, you're losing money more than how much you will even recover. Right. With all the the lawyer fees and all the legal processes, the travel and the stress, the health and everything. Right. So what is motivating you both to be fighting this? Because every time we have a call, both of you, you know, find time, you, you guys are busy professionals, but you are still finding time to fight for this, to speak for this. So what motivates the two of you? If somebody treats you, you cannot sit quiet, anybody can, and once you win over that things, right, you'll feel very satisfaction psychologically, mentally, you know, okay. That is the second thing. Third thing is. It's the end of the day, it's the financials. That is our future, right? We have to do it for our kids or whatever, you know, our kids education, et cetera. Even in India, we have some roots. We need to maintain that. If everything is cut off, then kind of, we are losing a lot. It has a major impact actually, major this thing.

Subhas Balappanavar: 29:30

Yeah, the the main motivation is we have gone through a lot of studies hard work and Came up in a hard way and earned all this money. These people came and they just deceived us You see, I, I feel our intelligence is zero in front of them.

Prashanth Panduranga: 29:49

Whatever

Subhas Balappanavar: 29:50

we have done and earned, I feel as was said, cheated. We are it is, it is more like mental you know, harm. What they have cost more than the financial harm. We, we feel like really cheated and these people are taking us for a grant and we are unable to do anything. You know, we are at loss. And no accountability also the any government official, anyone, if, if, if 15 years back, if we report to some higher officials, they, there used to be some impact. Now I'm reporting to PMO, nothing is happening. The PMO is opening one reference number and they are pursuing it through the state government, state government. It will go and it will die there. I have open anyway five to six PMO grievances. On the same subject,

Prashanth Panduranga: 30:43

subject,

Subhas Balappanavar: 30:44

but after this embassy and consulate campaign I'm speaking to PMO and PMO appointment committee and we sent it through email also for the worldwide delegates to come and present our cases. And

Amit Gupta: 30:58

no

Subhas Balappanavar: 30:59

two days back, I heard that our our request is under consideration.

Prashanth Panduranga: 31:03

Excellent. I

Subhas Balappanavar: 31:07

Excellent. I think Persistence is the key over here. And of course you guys are very persistent and you know, I, I salute your spirit in, in this, right. And Prashanthhh, to your point yes, it, it feels embarrassing and humiliated to, to feel that this is happening to you. Of course, we are all really good professionals who are, who are working very hard to you know, give our future generations the lives that we want to give them, right? And then while you're doing all of this, and then you have to fight those cases back home and, and it's not easy. I, I, I can see that it's not easy. And the, especially for somebody who has not been in this. World to figure out how this operates, right? Last time when we were speaking, Subash, you were talking about the procedures of the courts and the high courts and how you have to get the date and the hearing and how you have to attend it. It all sounded very complex to me and I'm like, okay, if you know, we shouldn't have to go through all of this and hopefully there is going to be more attention to this cause. And the government start taking this more seriously and, and agree to the demands that you have. So I, I wish you good luck with that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Perfect. So on behalf of the Indian community, Subhash and Prashanthhhh, thank you so much for speaking with us and sharing what you're doing. We shall share the links to your Change. org petition as well as to your WhatsApp group over here. So that will also bring you more people joining in after listening to this podcast. And I would also encourage more people to share this. If you're watching this, please share this with your family and friends, especially NRI so that they are also aware of. One is. that there is a movement in place. There are people like minded people who are willing to stand by you and support you. And then there's also this group or this community where you can ask questions and you can, you can get some advice. I wouldn't call that as legal advice, but at least friendly advice from people who have been through this and gone through this themselves. Maybe You know, like a like a elder brother or an elder sister who who will advise you of their experiences. So I I wish you guys good luck with with what you're doing.